Currently there is an "experimental" Bell 206 /
OH58 helicopter on EBAY.

I know that many of the L-39's and other warbirds
are operated as experimentals since they were
never certified in the US.

My question is this:

If you modify a production aircraft and call it
"experimental" what flight and/or use restrictions
apply to that aircraft?

Anyone know the rules?

TIA

Don W.

Don W wrote:
> Currently there is an "experimental" Bell 206 /
> OH58 helicopter on EBAY.
>
> I know that many of the L-39's and other warbirds
> are operated as experimentals since they were
> never certified in the US.
>
> My question is this:
>
> If you modify a production aircraft and call it
> "experimental" what flight and/or use restrictions
> apply to that aircraft?
>
> Anyone know the rules?
>
> TIA
>
> Don W.

I don't know the answer but assuming we are talking about the same
helicopter here's the registration info on it.
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=911PC

It is registered as Experimental-Exhbition. I do no that there may be
restrictions specific to the aircraft. If you are serious about it I'd
e-mail them and ask for a copy of the aircraft's AW certificate and I'd call
the EAA.

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:39:55 GMT, Don W >
wrote:

> Currently there is an "experimental" Bell 206 /
> OH58 helicopter on EBAY.
>
> I know that many of the L-39's and other warbirds
> are operated as experimentals since they were
> never certified in the US.
>
> My question is this:
>
> If you modify a production aircraft and call it
> "experimental" what flight and/or use restrictions
> apply to that aircraft?

First off, you can't just "call it experimental." The FAA must issue an
airworthiness certificate in the Experimental category, and you must provide
them sufficient justification for them to do so.

As part of the process, you have to declare the purpose of why the aircraft
should be licensed as Experimental. There are about nine sub-categories,
including Research and Development, Racing, Marketing Survey, Exhibition, Crew
Training, and Amateur-Built.

For instance, if you are developing a new engine, for instance, you can mount it
in a Cessna 172 and request certification as Experimental/Research and
Development. Most of the ex-military airplanes like the L-39 get licensed in
the Experimental/Exhibition category. If you built the plane yourself, you can
get it licensed as Experimental/Amateur-Built.

You will need to show to the FAA why the aircraft qualifies to be licensed in
one of these categories. The degree of proof the FAA demands, and the amount of
supervision they impose, depends on which of the sub-categories the airplane
calls under. Experimental Amateur-Built gets the most liberal restrictions,
basically being a lifetime certification. But the person applying for
certification must prove that the airplane was built for "education or
recreation," and that the majority of the tasks were performed by an amateur
builder.

The FAA generally frowns upon people modifying aircraft that have normal
certification. I know a guy who used a 172 as a test bed for a new auto-engine
conversion, but he only received certification in the Experimental/Research and
Development case and his certification was only good for one year at a time.
Every year, about three months prior to expiration, he had to repeat the
application process.

That helicopter on E-Bay is licensed in the Experimental/Exhibition category,
which has become almost as free as Experimental/Amateur-Built. The helicopter
is probably so certified because it's an ex-military aircraft. This still
doesn't give you the freedom to modify it willy-nilly. It really depends on how
the operating limitations are written; likely, the limitations state that the
aircraft must be maintained in accordance to the applicable military tech
documents.

There's only one certification category that allows for easy conversion to
Experimental, followed by the freedom to perform whatever modifications one
wishes: The Special Light Sport Aircraft category.

Ron Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote

> That helicopter on E-Bay is licensed in the Experimental/Exhibition
> category,
> which has become almost as free as Experimental/Amateur-Built. The
> helicopter
> is probably so certified because it's an ex-military aircraft. This still
> doesn't give you the freedom to modify it willy-nilly. It really depends
> on how
> the operating limitations are written; likely, the limitations state that
> the
> aircraft must be maintained in accordance to the applicable military tech
> documents.

I agree with everything you said.

One clarification, though.

Most, or many, military airplanes never were certified by the FAA. The
exceptions to this are the civil aviation certified aircraft that were
adopted for use by the military.

If a model was never certified by the FAA, then it will have no choice but
to be registered as an experimental of some classification.

One example already mentioned is the L-39, and add to that it was produced
by a foreign maker. Most of the old WWII bombers and fighters fit into this
category, too.
--
Jim in NC

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:39:55 GMT, Don W >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Currently there is an "experimental" Bell 206 /
>>OH58 helicopter on EBAY.
>
> First off, you can't just "call it experimental." The FAA must issue an
> airworthiness certificate in the Experimental category, and you must provide
> them sufficient justification for them to do so.

<snip excellent response>

Thanks Ron,

I remembered it that way, and as I recall there
are significant restrictions on the "Exibition"
category regarding where and when you can fly your
aircraft.

Don W.

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> Most of the old WWII bombers and fighters fit into this category, too.

In which category do the *new* WWII bombers and fighters fit? :)

Rich S.

(Clue: Me-262)

"Rich S." > wrote in message
. ..
> "Morgans" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Most of the old WWII bombers and fighters fit into this category, too.
>
> In which category do the *new* WWII bombers and fighters fit? :)


Apparently, Experimental Exhibition:

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=262AZ&cmndfind.x=10&cmndfind.y=11


Vaughn

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 21:52:29 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
> wrote:

>
> "Rich S." > wrote in message
> . ..
> > "Morgans" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> Most of the old WWII bombers and fighters fit into this category, too.
> >
> > In which category do the *new* WWII bombers and fighters fit? :)
>
>
> Apparently, Experimental Exhibition:
>
> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=262AZ&cmndfind.x=10&cmndfind.y=11

I know the guy who runs the operation, and he said that they came *this* close
to an Experimental Amateur-Built certification. When the FAA heard the DAR was
going to issue Ex/Am they stepped in to prevent it.

This is not quite as far-fetched as one might initially think. The planes are
being built for money, yes, but much of the labor is volunteer. As in
"education and recreation." There's a lot of retired types from the various EAA
chapters hanging around there....

Ron Wanttaja

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:29:34 GMT, Don W >
wrote:

> Ron Wanttaja wrote:
>
> >>Currently there is an "experimental" Bell 206 /
> >>OH58 helicopter on EBAY.
> >
> > First off, you can't just "call it experimental." The FAA must issue an
> > airworthiness certificate in the Experimental category, and you must provide
> > them sufficient justification for them to do so.
>
> I remembered it that way, and as I recall there
> are significant restrictions on the "Exibition"
> category regarding where and when you can fly your
> aircraft.

It really varies. We've got a guy in our chapter with a Sportavia RF-5B
motorglider with an Ex/Ex certificate. While I was helping annual my airplane
this afternoon, he walked by and I asked him about it.

His operating limitations are really no different from Ex-AM. His certification
is permanent, he doesn't have to contact the FAA regularly, and the only
limitations is a mention to not fly over congested areas except while taking off
and landing.

It seems to depend on whether you get a friendly DAR and/or FSDO, and probably
with the history/certification status of the plane. The RF-5 is a certified
plane in Europe, and the Limbach was probably the only hindrance to getting it
certified here.

Ron Wanttaja